Comments on: The Left Can Also Disown Cap-and-Trade (change a few words from Bob Herbert’s rejection of government health care and there you have it!) http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/ A free-market energy blog Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:41:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Cooler Heads Digest 4 February 2010 | GlobalWarming.org http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4498 Cooler Heads Digest 4 February 2010 | GlobalWarming.org Tue, 16 Feb 2010 16:54:36 +0000 http://www.masterresource.org/?p=7166#comment-4498 [...] The Left Can Also Disown Cap-and-Trade Robert Bradley, Jr., MasterResource.org, 3 February 2010 [...] [...] The Left Can Also Disown Cap-and-Trade Robert Bradley, Jr., MasterResource.org, 3 February 2010 [...]

]]> By: Robert R. Reynolds http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4343 Robert R. Reynolds Sat, 06 Feb 2010 07:24:06 +0000 http://www.masterresource.org/?p=7166#comment-4343 What an inopportune time for a real climate crisis which can only be a return of the next Pleistocene glacial stage. I cannot imagine a worse time for mankind to come up with the contrived crisis of man caused global warming when the global average temperature is at a low ebb, and has been since ice caps formed in our polar regions (the latest figures I have read) give the timing as 14 million yrs bp for the arctic and 34 million yrs bp for the Antarctic continent. Just recently, as time is measured on global scale events, we have had 5 major continental glaciations, the Pleistocene, separated by interglacial periods during the past 1.75 my. If anyone has an answer of when the next glaciation will occur, it will most probably be a Danish theoretical physicist, Henrik Svensmark, in cooperation with astronemers because the really large and long temperature changes are space related. When the Kyoto Protocols were published over 10 years ago, my geological background rebelled. I knew of no global warming events ever endangering life on the massive scale envisioned by the Protocols. And, a search of Earth climate history was not forthcoming of any. The Mesozoic (dinosaurs) was warmer than today and life thrived. Evolution was very active, amphibians to reptiles, birds and mammals from reptiles, flowering plants and deciduous trees. The real problem is there is no geologic evidence of past climates ever becoming too warm for life even when CO2 reached levels of 10 or more times that in our atmosphere today. Since CO2 is produced by human and other animal life activities and particularly man's reliance on coal, oil and natural gas in energy production, was seized by the AGW crowd as the villian to blame for the fiction of run-away climates. Over $30 billion has been wasted on unproductive research to prove CO2 the culprit. The failure to achieve this objective scientifically, should be sufficient to put this idea to rest, once and for all. However, it has been given Policy rights it does not deserve and political interest is still alive and well and a danger to bankrupting western civilization and leaving the human race unprepared for a future of ice. And, do not blame the Greenhouse gases for causing excess warming. It is our only hope of retaining enough heat from escaping back into space to enable man to survive another glacial event. And, man has not the power to maintain world temperatures even close to a desired level for any length of time. We must learn to adapt to the major climate changes or perish. What an inopportune time for a real climate crisis which can only be a return of the next Pleistocene glacial stage. I cannot imagine a worse time for mankind to come up with the contrived crisis of man caused global warming when the global average temperature is at a low ebb, and has been since ice caps formed in our polar regions (the latest figures I have read) give the timing as 14 million yrs bp for the arctic and 34 million yrs bp for the Antarctic continent.

Just recently, as time is measured on global scale events, we have had 5 major continental glaciations, the Pleistocene, separated by interglacial periods during the past 1.75 my. If anyone has an answer of when the next glaciation will occur, it will most probably be a Danish theoretical physicist, Henrik Svensmark, in cooperation with astronemers because the really large and long temperature changes are space related.

When the Kyoto Protocols were published over 10 years ago, my geological background rebelled. I knew of no global warming events ever endangering life on the massive scale envisioned by the Protocols. And, a search of Earth climate history was not forthcoming of any. The Mesozoic (dinosaurs) was warmer than today and life thrived. Evolution was very active, amphibians to reptiles, birds and mammals from reptiles, flowering plants and deciduous trees. The real problem is there is no geologic evidence of past climates ever becoming too warm for life even when CO2 reached levels of 10 or more times that in our atmosphere today.

Since CO2 is produced by human and other animal life activities and particularly man’s reliance on coal, oil and natural gas in energy production, was seized by the AGW crowd as the villian to blame for the fiction of run-away climates. Over $30 billion has been wasted on unproductive research to prove CO2 the culprit. The failure to achieve this objective scientifically, should be sufficient to put this idea to rest, once and for all. However, it has been given Policy rights it does not deserve and political interest is still alive and well and a danger to bankrupting western civilization and leaving the human race unprepared for a future of ice. And, do not blame the Greenhouse gases for causing excess warming.

It is our only hope of retaining enough heat from escaping back into space to enable man to survive another glacial event. And, man has not the power to maintain world temperatures even close to a desired level for any length of time. We must learn to adapt to the major climate changes or perish.

]]> By: Chris http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4324 Chris Thu, 04 Feb 2010 00:02:10 +0000 http://www.masterresource.org/?p=7166#comment-4324 It would help the left if they were intellectually honest. Cap and trade, like health care reform, were just tax bills disguised as environmental or health reform. Not only they were tax bills, they were redistributionist. The libs would have been far better served if they called for an outright tax on carbon dioxide, and an outright increase on the medicare payroll tax (as an example, which could have been expanded on top of medicaid to cover children, low-income, and young people without insurance). Of course, those taxes are flat taxes (which libs like to call regressive). Yes, those proposals would have likely failed on the spot, but they would have saved much effort in the process, plus kept their h0nesty and integrity intact (if they had any in the first place). This is what lib policy has come to: which is the best way to redistribute money while hiding the fact from the american people? In health care, for example, how come they didn't go for a straight call on regressive taxation (i.e., raise medicare payroll tax to 5%)? Yes, the hit is worse for low-income earners, but aren't they the prime beneficiary of the policy? In summary, the US is at a point where if it wants to fund additional social services, it needs to tax all levels of income, not just the rich. Representation without taxation is wrong. It would help the left if they were intellectually honest. Cap and trade, like health care reform, were just tax bills disguised as environmental or health reform. Not only they were tax bills, they were redistributionist. The libs would have been far better served if they called for an outright tax on carbon dioxide, and an outright increase on the medicare payroll tax (as an example, which could have been expanded on top of medicaid to cover children, low-income, and young people without insurance). Of course, those taxes are flat taxes (which libs like to call regressive). Yes, those proposals would have likely failed on the spot, but they would have saved much effort in the process, plus kept their h0nesty and integrity intact (if they had any in the first place). This is what lib policy has come to: which is the best way to redistribute money while hiding the fact from the american people? In health care, for example, how come they didn’t go for a straight call on regressive taxation (i.e., raise medicare payroll tax to 5%)? Yes, the hit is worse for low-income earners, but aren’t they the prime beneficiary of the policy?

In summary, the US is at a point where if it wants to fund additional social services, it needs to tax all levels of income, not just the rich. Representation without taxation is wrong.

]]> By: Jon Boone http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4315 Jon Boone Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:44:26 +0000 http://www.masterresource.org/?p=7166#comment-4315 Hmmm. Four to one, Tom? Only four to one.... A small near term investment loss when the ultimate stakes are so high. Don't you understand the very future of the earth is at risk? Just as the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids to pleasure the gods, placating their whimsical natures to achieve peace on earth, just as the great European churches arose so that all could exalt in the saving of souls, the eschatology wrought by a desire to corner the carbon devil demands sacrifice. Given the treasure former civilizations amassed to build their altars to expiate their demons, four to one seems like a bargain. Routine tithing, at ten percent, is simply not enough.... Hmmm. Four to one, Tom? Only four to one…. A small near term investment loss when the ultimate stakes are so high. Don’t you understand the very future of the earth is at risk? Just as the ancient Egyptians built the pyramids to pleasure the gods, placating their whimsical natures to achieve peace on earth, just as the great European churches arose so that all could exalt in the saving of souls, the eschatology wrought by a desire to corner the carbon devil demands sacrifice.

Given the treasure former civilizations amassed to build their altars to expiate their demons, four to one seems like a bargain. Routine tithing, at ten percent, is simply not enough….

]]> By: Mr. Xyz http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4314 Mr. Xyz Wed, 03 Feb 2010 16:31:49 +0000 http://www.masterresource.org/?p=7166#comment-4314 "We've told so many lies, young scientists are totally confused" <a href="http://climaterealists.com/?id=4960" rel="nofollow"> http://climaterealists.com/?id=4960 </a> (a video spoof of climate science) “We’ve told so many lies, young scientists are totally confused”

http://climaterealists.com/?id=4960
(a video spoof of climate science)

]]> By: Tom Tanton http://www.masterresource.org/2010/02/the-left-can-also-disown-cap-and-trade-change-a-few-words-from-bob-herberts-rejection-of-government-health-care-and-there-you-have-it/comment-page-1/#comment-4310 Tom Tanton Wed, 03 Feb 2010 12:52:34 +0000 http://www.masterresource.org/?p=7166#comment-4310 Smaller scale debate going on in Ca wrt AB32 rules for cap/trade and cap/dividend. Intersting tidbit is that the "dividend" is estimated at ~$1k per capita, but the costs are estimated at ~$4k per capita (both annually) and some folks wonder why CA has a $20B deficit---I did quit wondering after I saw that sort of analysis used to acually support the cap/auction/dividend scheme. Just how sustainable is a 4:1 loss? Smaller scale debate going on in Ca wrt AB32 rules for cap/trade and cap/dividend. Intersting tidbit is that the “dividend” is estimated at ~$1k per capita, but the costs are estimated at ~$4k per capita (both annually) and some folks wonder why CA has a $20B deficit—I did quit wondering after I saw that sort of analysis used to acually support the cap/auction/dividend scheme. Just how sustainable is a 4:1 loss?

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