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	<title>Comments on: Tom Friedman Has a Standing Invitation to My Weekly Poker Game: The Abused Insurance Analogy for Climate Change</title>
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	<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/</link>
	<description>A free-market energy blog</description>
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		<title>By: G Dixon</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3987</link>
		<dc:creator>G Dixon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jan 2010 22:21:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3987</guid>
		<description>@JD Will
If you click on the link below the graph you mentioned, which takes you to where the original figures come from, you&#039;ll notice the original graph has the same shape, but the maximums are at 25 degrees rather than 22.

For a more accurate representation of climate over the last 100 Million years, there is an excellent video of a lecture by Prof Richard Alley at the Fall AGU meeting where he talks about the Permian and Cretaceous temperatures. http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@JD Will<br />
If you click on the link below the graph you mentioned, which takes you to where the original figures come from, you&#8217;ll notice the original graph has the same shape, but the maximums are at 25 degrees rather than 22.</p>
<p>For a more accurate representation of climate over the last 100 Million years, there is an excellent video of a lecture by Prof Richard Alley at the Fall AGU meeting where he talks about the Permian and Cretaceous temperatures. <a href="http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.agu.org/meetings/fm09/lectures/lecture_videos/A23A.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Recomendaciones &#171; intelib</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3710</link>
		<dc:creator>Recomendaciones &#171; intelib</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 19 Dec 2009 11:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3710</guid>
		<description>[...]  The Abused Insurance Analogy for Climate Change, by Jim [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  The Abused Insurance Analogy for Climate Change, by Jim [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Manzi</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3707</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Manzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 22:56:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3707</guid>
		<description>Nathan:

Thanks for the comment.  I replied to that post, and several like it, here:http://theamericanscene.com/2009/06/30/money-is-not-the-measure-of-all-things</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nathan:</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  I replied to that post, and several like it, here:<a href="http://theamericanscene.com/2009/06/30/money-is-not-the-measure-of-all-things" rel="nofollow">http://theamericanscene.com/2009/06/30/money-is-not-the-measure-of-all-things</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim Manzi</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3705</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Manzi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 21:19:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3705</guid>
		<description>Michael:

Yes, that irony was one thing I really wanted to emphasize.

JD Will:

That is exactly the kind of comment that I love to hear, thanks.  There&#039;s an old saying in physics: &quot;If you can&#039;t explain it simply, you don&#039;t understand it well enough&quot;.  

I&#039;m be pretty skeptical of outlier conclusions because I know enough about other areas of science to know I&#039;m not competent t judge theories in this speciality, outside of some very limited domains.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael:</p>
<p>Yes, that irony was one thing I really wanted to emphasize.</p>
<p>JD Will:</p>
<p>That is exactly the kind of comment that I love to hear, thanks.  There&#8217;s an old saying in physics: &#8220;If you can&#8217;t explain it simply, you don&#8217;t understand it well enough&#8221;.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m be pretty skeptical of outlier conclusions because I know enough about other areas of science to know I&#8217;m not competent t judge theories in this speciality, outside of some very limited domains.</p>
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		<title>By: Nathan</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3700</link>
		<dc:creator>Nathan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Dec 2009 17:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3700</guid>
		<description>This is all very interesting, but I wonder if global GDP numbers are the best tool to measure the supposedly minimal impact of climate change.

Nate Silver (no relation) published a response to this argument in June, looking at the contribution to Global GDP of the nations that would likely be most affected by climate change . 

&quot;The problem with GDP is this: it varies greatly across counties, by a factor of 800 or so on a per-capita basis between Burundi and Luxembourg, or nearly 2,000 if you count Zimbabwe, which effectively does not have an economy. A lot of countries contribute almost nothing to global GDP, even though they may have tens or hundreds of millions of people. You could literally wipe them from the globe and the impact on global GDP would be de minimis.&quot;

http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is all very interesting, but I wonder if global GDP numbers are the best tool to measure the supposedly minimal impact of climate change.</p>
<p>Nate Silver (no relation) published a response to this argument in June, looking at the contribution to Global GDP of the nations that would likely be most affected by climate change . </p>
<p>&#8220;The problem with GDP is this: it varies greatly across counties, by a factor of 800 or so on a per-capita basis between Burundi and Luxembourg, or nearly 2,000 if you count Zimbabwe, which effectively does not have an economy. A lot of countries contribute almost nothing to global GDP, even though they may have tens or hundreds of millions of people. You could literally wipe them from the globe and the impact on global GDP would be de minimis.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2009/06/how-to-destroy-almost-half-planet-for.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: The futility of climate change denialism - E.D. Kain - American Times - True/Slant</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3696</link>
		<dc:creator>The futility of climate change denialism - E.D. Kain - American Times - True/Slant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:13:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3696</guid>
		<description>[...]  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The Problem of Denial &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3695</link>
		<dc:creator>The Problem of Denial &#124; The League of Ordinary Gentlemen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:24:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3695</guid>
		<description>[...] Manzi synthesizes several objections he&#8217;s aired to comprehensive greenhouse gas regulations in one easy-to-read Thomas Friedman take-down. I find this stuff pretty persuasive, but it&#8217;s worth noting that there&#8217;s real tension [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Manzi synthesizes several objections he&#8217;s aired to comprehensive greenhouse gas regulations in one easy-to-read Thomas Friedman take-down. I find this stuff pretty persuasive, but it&#8217;s worth noting that there&#8217;s real tension [...]</p>
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		<title>By: ajay</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3694</link>
		<dc:creator>ajay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 19:17:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3694</guid>
		<description>Tom Friedman Checks into Five Star Hotel, Gets Idea for New Book

http://eggplantpost.com/2009/12/16/tom-friedman-checks-into-five-star-hotel-gets-idea-for-new-book/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Friedman Checks into Five Star Hotel, Gets Idea for New Book</p>
<p><a href="http://eggplantpost.com/2009/12/16/tom-friedman-checks-into-five-star-hotel-gets-idea-for-new-book/" rel="nofollow">http://eggplantpost.com/2009/12/16/tom-friedman-checks-into-five-star-hotel-gets-idea-for-new-book/</a></p>
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		<title>By: JD Will</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3693</link>
		<dc:creator>JD Will</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 18:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3693</guid>
		<description>Thank you for a most educational article. I also dove into 
http://theamericanscene.com/2008/01/04/weitzman-formalism-run-amok
and was able to understand the math. This is a big compliment to you, not me, as the best writers make difficult subjects more accessible to the layman.

One point to add. There is likely an upper limit to temperature as CO2 increases. This paleo record (scroll down)
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html
shows temperature flat lining at about 22 degrees Celsius even when CO2 was much higher than today. Of course as with any &#039;facts&#039; it is hard to correlate this to graphs at the .gov or AGW proponent sites, so I am still looking for other sources.

That&#039;s only 71 F, and enquiries to geologist sites indicate there would be less gradient. Evidently the hothouse earth in the deep past was possibly balmy - life certainly flourished in these periods.

Back on your main point, all these projections depend fundamentally on climate sensitivity to forcing from CO2 (and other inputs). This following article is quite interesting in Dr Nir Shaviv claims to be able to empirically calculate sensitivity based on past record.
http://www.sciencebits.com/OnClimateSensitivity

&quot;&lt;i&gt;The IPCC states ... the climate sensitivity is likely to be in the range of 1.5 to 4.5°K. &lt;/i&gt;&quot; - (for CO2 doubling)

Whereas he derives:

&quot;&lt;i&gt; ... corresponds to CO2 doubling temperature of 2.0±0.5°K. &lt;/i&gt;&quot; - (excluding his pet theory, CRF, which takes it much lower)


My current take away is the tails aren&#039;t that fat and though we should be working on new and improved energy, we should not beggar ourselves with Friedman&#039;s &#039;insurance policy&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you for a most educational article. I also dove into<br />
<a href="http://theamericanscene.com/2008/01/04/weitzman-formalism-run-amok" rel="nofollow">http://theamericanscene.com/2008/01/04/weitzman-formalism-run-amok</a><br />
and was able to understand the math. This is a big compliment to you, not me, as the best writers make difficult subjects more accessible to the layman.</p>
<p>One point to add. There is likely an upper limit to temperature as CO2 increases. This paleo record (scroll down)<br />
<a href="http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/Carboniferous_climate.html</a><br />
shows temperature flat lining at about 22 degrees Celsius even when CO2 was much higher than today. Of course as with any &#8216;facts&#8217; it is hard to correlate this to graphs at the .gov or AGW proponent sites, so I am still looking for other sources.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s only 71 F, and enquiries to geologist sites indicate there would be less gradient. Evidently the hothouse earth in the deep past was possibly balmy &#8211; life certainly flourished in these periods.</p>
<p>Back on your main point, all these projections depend fundamentally on climate sensitivity to forcing from CO2 (and other inputs). This following article is quite interesting in Dr Nir Shaviv claims to be able to empirically calculate sensitivity based on past record.<br />
<a href="http://www.sciencebits.com/OnClimateSensitivity" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencebits.com/OnClimateSensitivity</a></p>
<p>&#8220;<i>The IPCC states &#8230; the climate sensitivity is likely to be in the range of 1.5 to 4.5°K. </i>&#8221; &#8211; (for CO2 doubling)</p>
<p>Whereas he derives:</p>
<p>&#8220;<i> &#8230; corresponds to CO2 doubling temperature of 2.0±0.5°K. </i>&#8221; &#8211; (excluding his pet theory, CRF, which takes it much lower)</p>
<p>My current take away is the tails aren&#8217;t that fat and though we should be working on new and improved energy, we should not beggar ourselves with Friedman&#8217;s &#8216;insurance policy&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Donald Hertzmark</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/tom-friedman-has-a-standing-invitation-to-my-weekly-poker-game/comment-page-1/#comment-3690</link>
		<dc:creator>Donald Hertzmark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 14:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6284#comment-3690</guid>
		<description>Jim,
One irony in the current energy-climate debate is that the proponents of strong action to shift and reduce our energy resource base toward intermittent sources will leave us with far more cost and less energy.

Simultaneously we are continually hectored about how the excess costs of medical care in the US represent a danger to our republic.

Why is it that paying too much for low quality energy is good but paying too much for high quality health care is bad?  Which one does more damage to the economy?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim,<br />
One irony in the current energy-climate debate is that the proponents of strong action to shift and reduce our energy resource base toward intermittent sources will leave us with far more cost and less energy.</p>
<p>Simultaneously we are continually hectored about how the excess costs of medical care in the US represent a danger to our republic.</p>
<p>Why is it that paying too much for low quality energy is good but paying too much for high quality health care is bad?  Which one does more damage to the economy?</p>
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