<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Left, Nuclear Power, and Copenhagen: Rejecting the Viable</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/</link>
	<description>A free-market energy blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:41:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator>
	<item>
		<title>By: Charles Higley</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3671</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Higley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Dec 2009 15:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3671</guid>
		<description>Of course, in the long run we should work to preserve our carbon sources as we will always need them for pharmaceuticals and plastics production. But, seeking and using alternative energy, particularly in a forced and technologically premature manner, to decrease CO2 emissions is a fool&#039;s mission as CO2 cannot and does not drive the climate. This is a great way to screw the people, but reducing emissions has nothing to do with our climate. If you take an honest look at the temperatures over the last 10,000 years, you will see that our ups and downs are trending down. An incipient ice age is our biggest worry, not a slight warming that does not even approach the 1930s and is a far cry from the Medieval Warm Period. Yes, Buffy, there was a Medieval Warm Period and a Little Ice Age, and we appear to be heading into at least a Dalton Minimum, if not a Maunder Minimum, with the PDO and NAO gone to cooling phases and solar cycle 24 gone missing. The heat storage in the oceans and its gain and losses drives our climate in the decadal range and the sun drives it in the longer range. Yes, that big HOT thing in the sky drives our climate, not out SUVs.

The new pebble bed nuclear power plant designs are quite exciting and should be pursued avidly. Their relative safety is much higher than our current plants whose track record is admirable.

Remember, the rad. environmentalists do not want nuclear, or effective wind power, or effective solar power as it would solve our problems and we could keep on keeping on with our lives. Their goal is to disrupt our lives and impose their own Little House on the Prairie vision on everybody. In reality their ideas would lead to a Little Outhouse in the Alley with a long line of miserable people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, in the long run we should work to preserve our carbon sources as we will always need them for pharmaceuticals and plastics production. But, seeking and using alternative energy, particularly in a forced and technologically premature manner, to decrease CO2 emissions is a fool&#8217;s mission as CO2 cannot and does not drive the climate. This is a great way to screw the people, but reducing emissions has nothing to do with our climate. If you take an honest look at the temperatures over the last 10,000 years, you will see that our ups and downs are trending down. An incipient ice age is our biggest worry, not a slight warming that does not even approach the 1930s and is a far cry from the Medieval Warm Period. Yes, Buffy, there was a Medieval Warm Period and a Little Ice Age, and we appear to be heading into at least a Dalton Minimum, if not a Maunder Minimum, with the PDO and NAO gone to cooling phases and solar cycle 24 gone missing. The heat storage in the oceans and its gain and losses drives our climate in the decadal range and the sun drives it in the longer range. Yes, that big HOT thing in the sky drives our climate, not out SUVs.</p>
<p>The new pebble bed nuclear power plant designs are quite exciting and should be pursued avidly. Their relative safety is much higher than our current plants whose track record is admirable.</p>
<p>Remember, the rad. environmentalists do not want nuclear, or effective wind power, or effective solar power as it would solve our problems and we could keep on keeping on with our lives. Their goal is to disrupt our lives and impose their own Little House on the Prairie vision on everybody. In reality their ideas would lead to a Little Outhouse in the Alley with a long line of miserable people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stas Peterson</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3644</link>
		<dc:creator>Stas Peterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Dec 2009 00:05:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3644</guid>
		<description>This is conclusive proof that these idiots intend to create a power catastrophe.  California is  well on leading the way. It depends on importing power from everyWestern state and third world Mexico; and actually generates less power than it did 20 years ago.  The California loons assume that that situation can go on forever,  but every western state&#039;s  reserves are being drawn down.  All it takes is one western states&#039; PUC to order  no more sales  to California and every other State  will have to do so, since none can meet the sudden demand.  Freeze and/or  Cook in the  dark, you California cloacal cavities!

Meanwhile the 35 odd nuclear plants in the US pipeline to be built, with nary a one in California, will come on line in the next decade.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is conclusive proof that these idiots intend to create a power catastrophe.  California is  well on leading the way. It depends on importing power from everyWestern state and third world Mexico; and actually generates less power than it did 20 years ago.  The California loons assume that that situation can go on forever,  but every western state&#8217;s  reserves are being drawn down.  All it takes is one western states&#8217; PUC to order  no more sales  to California and every other State  will have to do so, since none can meet the sudden demand.  Freeze and/or  Cook in the  dark, you California cloacal cavities!</p>
<p>Meanwhile the 35 odd nuclear plants in the US pipeline to be built, with nary a one in California, will come on line in the next decade.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: DocForesight</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3626</link>
		<dc:creator>DocForesight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Dec 2009 19:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3626</guid>
		<description>What this country needs is a leader who will actually take the time to explain to the citizens the facts: good, bad and ugly - of what our energy needs are and how to best meet them.

He/she doesn&#039;t need to express any preferences, just let the facts speak for themselves and let the chips fall where they may. Include the back-up power costs associated with any intermittent power source so everything is compared on an equal footing.  Since nuclear power has demonstrated the highest, most consistent capacity factor over the past 30 years of nearly 90%, then that should become the benchmark for comparison.

Leave out carbon credits, feed-in tariffs, subsidies and other schemes to game the real costs of building. And factor in the average length of life span for the plant. I think Barry Brook at www.bravenewclimate.com has done much of this in his TCASE series.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What this country needs is a leader who will actually take the time to explain to the citizens the facts: good, bad and ugly &#8211; of what our energy needs are and how to best meet them.</p>
<p>He/she doesn&#8217;t need to express any preferences, just let the facts speak for themselves and let the chips fall where they may. Include the back-up power costs associated with any intermittent power source so everything is compared on an equal footing.  Since nuclear power has demonstrated the highest, most consistent capacity factor over the past 30 years of nearly 90%, then that should become the benchmark for comparison.</p>
<p>Leave out carbon credits, feed-in tariffs, subsidies and other schemes to game the real costs of building. And factor in the average length of life span for the plant. I think Barry Brook at <a href="http://www.bravenewclimate.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.bravenewclimate.com</a> has done much of this in his TCASE series.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Boone</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3611</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Boone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 18:40:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3611</guid>
		<description>Not to mention, Bob, the increased voltage regulation costs for harmonizing all that desultory wind .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to mention, Bob, the increased voltage regulation costs for harmonizing all that desultory wind .</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Tom Tanton</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3610</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Tanton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Dec 2009 15:04:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3610</guid>
		<description>Bob, I centainly agree with the monetized costs implications of poor utilization of transmission with wind compared to other technologies.  Generally the low utilization facvtor for TL hampers building TL to start with (a capital intesnive faciltiy with &lt;50% cf is always hard to do) , and these polcies make it that much more difficult.  That&#039;s also largely why TL has THE longest permit/construction timeframe.
There is also a HUGE cost, typically nonmonetized, from the eminent domain taking of (property) rights of way for those transmission lines and the lower property values of folks at the wind site and along the TL route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob, I centainly agree with the monetized costs implications of poor utilization of transmission with wind compared to other technologies.  Generally the low utilization facvtor for TL hampers building TL to start with (a capital intesnive faciltiy with &lt;50% cf is always hard to do) , and these polcies make it that much more difficult.  That&#039;s also largely why TL has THE longest permit/construction timeframe.<br />
There is also a HUGE cost, typically nonmonetized, from the eminent domain taking of (property) rights of way for those transmission lines and the lower property values of folks at the wind site and along the TL route.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Bob Peltier</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3607</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Peltier</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3607</guid>
		<description>The costs must also include transmission. If Senator Reid has his way, the Fed will string new transmission lines from coast to coast with the stated purpose of making renewable energy more transportable. The problem again is with capacity factors.  Wind and solar are at best 25% plus or minus means that the cost per MWhr of energy moved on the lines will cost 3.5 times as much as the same lines carrying nuclear energy at a 90% capacity factor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The costs must also include transmission. If Senator Reid has his way, the Fed will string new transmission lines from coast to coast with the stated purpose of making renewable energy more transportable. The problem again is with capacity factors.  Wind and solar are at best 25% plus or minus means that the cost per MWhr of energy moved on the lines will cost 3.5 times as much as the same lines carrying nuclear energy at a 90% capacity factor.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Boone</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3606</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Boone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 23:42:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3606</guid>
		<description>Capacity factors for wind and solar are essentially a function of external factors like weather; they&#039;re at the mercy of their power sources. Capacity factors for conventional generation are basically the result of operator choice, providing their rated capacities, or a desired portion thereof, on command. Nuclear has a national capacity factor of 92%; certain diesel plants have capacity factors of less than 1%. But they work when desired.

The national capacity factor for wind is 28%, far better than in Europe. Any capacity credit for wind, a la ERCOT, is merely statistical in nature, for no one can predict at any time ahead interval how much wind energy would be available. Wind energy does not work when most desired.

All conventional generators have effective capacities of 99.999%; otherwise, they&#039;d be removed from the grid. Wind has zero effective capacity.

Why continue to compare costs between these ineffectual renewables and sources of power that are highly effective? Is it even rationale to think that people believe that the cost of a proven lemon is in any way comparable in value to the most highly performing, most responsive vehicles?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Capacity factors for wind and solar are essentially a function of external factors like weather; they&#8217;re at the mercy of their power sources. Capacity factors for conventional generation are basically the result of operator choice, providing their rated capacities, or a desired portion thereof, on command. Nuclear has a national capacity factor of 92%; certain diesel plants have capacity factors of less than 1%. But they work when desired.</p>
<p>The national capacity factor for wind is 28%, far better than in Europe. Any capacity credit for wind, a la ERCOT, is merely statistical in nature, for no one can predict at any time ahead interval how much wind energy would be available. Wind energy does not work when most desired.</p>
<p>All conventional generators have effective capacities of 99.999%; otherwise, they&#8217;d be removed from the grid. Wind has zero effective capacity.</p>
<p>Why continue to compare costs between these ineffectual renewables and sources of power that are highly effective? Is it even rationale to think that people believe that the cost of a proven lemon is in any way comparable in value to the most highly performing, most responsive vehicles?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: chris y</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3605</link>
		<dc:creator>chris y</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3605</guid>
		<description>The capital costs quoted are misleading. As renewables account for a larger share of total generation, the capital cost must be scaled by the capacity factor. Nuclear is around 90%. Wind farms in the best locations achieve 35%. Solar in the best locations reaches 25%. A nuke at $4800/kW is closer to $5400/kW. Wind at $5000/kW is closer to $14,300/kW. Solar at $6000/kW is closer to $24,000/kW. Renewables aren&#039;t in the same ballpark.

A second hidden cost of fickle renewables is the additional rapid-ramping generation (natural gas) or substantial storage (pumped hydro being the only one suitable at present) needed to back up the renewables when they drop off. Considerable experience in Spain, Germany and Denmark has demonstrated this reality. Texas ERCOT currently rates wind farms at 8.9% of capacity for next day generation forecasting. Nuclear plants are typically 90%.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The capital costs quoted are misleading. As renewables account for a larger share of total generation, the capital cost must be scaled by the capacity factor. Nuclear is around 90%. Wind farms in the best locations achieve 35%. Solar in the best locations reaches 25%. A nuke at $4800/kW is closer to $5400/kW. Wind at $5000/kW is closer to $14,300/kW. Solar at $6000/kW is closer to $24,000/kW. Renewables aren&#8217;t in the same ballpark.</p>
<p>A second hidden cost of fickle renewables is the additional rapid-ramping generation (natural gas) or substantial storage (pumped hydro being the only one suitable at present) needed to back up the renewables when they drop off. Considerable experience in Spain, Germany and Denmark has demonstrated this reality. Texas ERCOT currently rates wind farms at 8.9% of capacity for next day generation forecasting. Nuclear plants are typically 90%.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Red Craig</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3604</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 18:20:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3604</guid>
		<description>Tom&#039;s comment about Chernobyl has to be respected.  Certainly, another such accident should be avoided, although not at the cost of continuing to burn fossil fuels, which cause hundreds of thousands of deaths every year.

But the Chernobyl reactor was different from the reactors everywhere else in the world.  It was a Soviet monstrosity with literally no safety features.  In contrast, consider the Three Mile Island accident, a major accident that destroyed the reactor but didn&#039;t cause harm to anyone.  Judging nuclear energy by Chernobyl is the same as judging aviation by the Hindenburg disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom&#8217;s comment about Chernobyl has to be respected.  Certainly, another such accident should be avoided, although not at the cost of continuing to burn fossil fuels, which cause hundreds of thousands of deaths every year.</p>
<p>But the Chernobyl reactor was different from the reactors everywhere else in the world.  It was a Soviet monstrosity with literally no safety features.  In contrast, consider the Three Mile Island accident, a major accident that destroyed the reactor but didn&#8217;t cause harm to anyone.  Judging nuclear energy by Chernobyl is the same as judging aviation by the Hindenburg disaster.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jon Boone</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/12/the-left-and-copenhagen-where-is-nuclear-power-given-their-carbon-angst/comment-page-1/#comment-3602</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Boone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Dec 2009 17:38:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.masterresource.org/?p=6183#comment-3602</guid>
		<description>For those who doubt the safety of nuclear plants, do read two relatively recent books: Bill Tucker&#039;s Terrestrial Energy and Gwyneth Craven&#039;s Power to Save the World. One might also review the safety and performance history of nuclear in France and Sweden. And then note that the nation&#039;s largest grid, the PJM, uses nuclear for around 35-40% of its annual generation--and has done so for decades, without jeopardizing life and property.

Robert Bryce continues to perform yeoman service in the cause of enlightened energy policy. However, even he should stop using apples to orangoutangs comparisons between the cost of nuclear and other conventional generators and the &quot;cost&quot; of intermittent volatile generators like wind and solar. Since the latter provides zero capacity value (no one can know how much energy they will produce at any future time) and no modern power performance-- and they are neither dispatchable nor controllable--there can be nothing but a Faustian exchange between their value and the value of conventional power sources.

Trading nuclear, or coal, or natural gas, or hydro generation for wind, for example, is akin to trading Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Sandy Koufax, or Willy Mays for a third string high school baseball player who made the team because of his father&#039;s contributions to the alumni fund.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who doubt the safety of nuclear plants, do read two relatively recent books: Bill Tucker&#8217;s Terrestrial Energy and Gwyneth Craven&#8217;s Power to Save the World. One might also review the safety and performance history of nuclear in France and Sweden. And then note that the nation&#8217;s largest grid, the PJM, uses nuclear for around 35-40% of its annual generation&#8211;and has done so for decades, without jeopardizing life and property.</p>
<p>Robert Bryce continues to perform yeoman service in the cause of enlightened energy policy. However, even he should stop using apples to orangoutangs comparisons between the cost of nuclear and other conventional generators and the &#8220;cost&#8221; of intermittent volatile generators like wind and solar. Since the latter provides zero capacity value (no one can know how much energy they will produce at any future time) and no modern power performance&#8211; and they are neither dispatchable nor controllable&#8211;there can be nothing but a Faustian exchange between their value and the value of conventional power sources.</p>
<p>Trading nuclear, or coal, or natural gas, or hydro generation for wind, for example, is akin to trading Babe Ruth, Lou Gehrig, Sandy Koufax, or Willy Mays for a third string high school baseball player who made the team because of his father&#8217;s contributions to the alumni fund.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>

