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	<title>Comments on: Is the Climate Science Debate Over? No, It&#8217;s Just Getting Very Interesting (with welcome news for mankind)</title>
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	<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/</link>
	<description>A free-market energy blog</description>
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		<title>By: quentin parker</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-17660</link>
		<dc:creator>quentin parker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Jun 2011 00:50:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-17660</guid>
		<description>Whether we analyze the global temperature record, (and trust it) or whether we try to scientifically join all relevant data into a comprehensive, interactive database (and trust it) and then to create viable computer models, algorhythms and other extrapolation devices to calculate projections (and trust this) - well,  it seems to me -from a non-scientific viewpoint, that many of you scientists spend too much time invalidating or refuting each others conclusions rather than addressing what is clearly happening with neutral observation and reporting. 

For instance this little quip: &quot;A WPO poll found a remarkable 60% of those who watched Fox News almost daily believe that “Most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring,” whereas only 30% who never watch it believe that.  Only 25% of those who watch CNN almost daily hold that erroneous belief — and only 14% who listen to NPR or PBS almost daily.&quot;

 Yes, I had to read that quip several times, too.This statement about “most scientists” is concerning, as in defining a majority - from which field exactly? Of ALL scientists worldwide, in every field? Of just a quick polling of run-around-the-block-finding-a-few-group? 

The fact that global “climate” is constantly in a state of change, affected by many different sets of variables, some interacting together, others in direct contradiction to another, does not seem to matter in all those equations science and math deliver.  The problem is that certain amplitudes and frequencies of recent climate changes in our immediate observation timeline are rather unusual, and might mean soon enough unsustainable conditions for a majority of the human race. (This matters!) Hence the simple term some use: “Global Climate Destabilization” might be better.
Therefore, watching any news apparently creates such a bias by the viewing audience toward not recognizing simple, clear factual data, (erg: that most scientists agree ‘Climate change is not occurring”),  that we need to turn off the TV, cancel newspaper subscriptions and throw out the radio. At least then, when our house gets sucked up by a tornado, flooded by a crested river, collapsed by increased snow load, or ripped apart by a hurricane we can explain clearly that we collectively had no idea this change was approaching.

Recently the Brits -and their scientists- pointed out something about Maunder Minimum of sunspots waning, instead of what they should be doing, increasing over the next decade or so. This means our daily dose of radiation is decreasing and that perhaps, as in the early 18th century, we are now looking at the potential for a mini ice age. 
http://www.earthtimes.org/climate/sun-spot-decrease-ice-age-scientists/1044/
Aha, just when we were all getting too hot under the collective scientific collar, the sun turns down the power for a while. Of course this observation is under discussion and refudiation as well...
To summarize my ranting is simple: 
- We need a better protocol of dialogue and scientific reporting which reduces individual and personal bias so that factual data and concise scientific observations are not affected
-We (as in the Global Climate description) are in an open system of many different interactive programs, forces and cycles, which apparently pose great difficulty in scientific prognostication. Our comprehension lacks and obfuscation rules. Without a definitive and clear interpretation of data, every science report issued for administrative or policy-adaptive changes then has no collective bite. Without intelligent address, H.L. Mencken&#039;s projections on human cultural behavior becomes realized, once again.  Can we afford this? 

In the meanwhile, very bad things are clearly occurring. Scientists, time to get your act together!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Whether we analyze the global temperature record, (and trust it) or whether we try to scientifically join all relevant data into a comprehensive, interactive database (and trust it) and then to create viable computer models, algorhythms and other extrapolation devices to calculate projections (and trust this) &#8211; well,  it seems to me -from a non-scientific viewpoint, that many of you scientists spend too much time invalidating or refuting each others conclusions rather than addressing what is clearly happening with neutral observation and reporting. </p>
<p>For instance this little quip: &#8220;A WPO poll found a remarkable 60% of those who watched Fox News almost daily believe that “Most scientists do not agree that climate change is occurring,” whereas only 30% who never watch it believe that.  Only 25% of those who watch CNN almost daily hold that erroneous belief — and only 14% who listen to NPR or PBS almost daily.&#8221;</p>
<p> Yes, I had to read that quip several times, too.This statement about “most scientists” is concerning, as in defining a majority &#8211; from which field exactly? Of ALL scientists worldwide, in every field? Of just a quick polling of run-around-the-block-finding-a-few-group? </p>
<p>The fact that global “climate” is constantly in a state of change, affected by many different sets of variables, some interacting together, others in direct contradiction to another, does not seem to matter in all those equations science and math deliver.  The problem is that certain amplitudes and frequencies of recent climate changes in our immediate observation timeline are rather unusual, and might mean soon enough unsustainable conditions for a majority of the human race. (This matters!) Hence the simple term some use: “Global Climate Destabilization” might be better.<br />
Therefore, watching any news apparently creates such a bias by the viewing audience toward not recognizing simple, clear factual data, (erg: that most scientists agree ‘Climate change is not occurring”),  that we need to turn off the TV, cancel newspaper subscriptions and throw out the radio. At least then, when our house gets sucked up by a tornado, flooded by a crested river, collapsed by increased snow load, or ripped apart by a hurricane we can explain clearly that we collectively had no idea this change was approaching.</p>
<p>Recently the Brits -and their scientists- pointed out something about Maunder Minimum of sunspots waning, instead of what they should be doing, increasing over the next decade or so. This means our daily dose of radiation is decreasing and that perhaps, as in the early 18th century, we are now looking at the potential for a mini ice age.<br />
<a href="http://www.earthtimes.org/climate/sun-spot-decrease-ice-age-scientists/1044/" rel="nofollow">http://www.earthtimes.org/climate/sun-spot-decrease-ice-age-scientists/1044/</a><br />
Aha, just when we were all getting too hot under the collective scientific collar, the sun turns down the power for a while. Of course this observation is under discussion and refudiation as well&#8230;<br />
To summarize my ranting is simple:<br />
- We need a better protocol of dialogue and scientific reporting which reduces individual and personal bias so that factual data and concise scientific observations are not affected<br />
-We (as in the Global Climate description) are in an open system of many different interactive programs, forces and cycles, which apparently pose great difficulty in scientific prognostication. Our comprehension lacks and obfuscation rules. Without a definitive and clear interpretation of data, every science report issued for administrative or policy-adaptive changes then has no collective bite. Without intelligent address, H.L. Mencken&#8217;s projections on human cultural behavior becomes realized, once again.  Can we afford this? </p>
<p>In the meanwhile, very bad things are clearly occurring. Scientists, time to get your act together!</p>
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		<title>By: Can We Trust the Temperature Record? &#160;&#124;&#160;GlobalWarming.org</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2749</link>
		<dc:creator>Can We Trust the Temperature Record? &#160;&#124;&#160;GlobalWarming.org</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 13:49:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2749</guid>
		<description>[...] Marlo Lewis blogged on the inadequacy of the U.S. surface temperature record in this excellent post.    &#171; Cooler Heads Digest 18 September [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Marlo Lewis blogged on the inadequacy of the U.S. surface temperature record in this excellent post.    &laquo; Cooler Heads Digest 18 September [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Even the Generals are Worried! Mission Creep, Climate Change, and National Security (Part 1) &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2054</link>
		<dc:creator>Even the Generals are Worried! Mission Creep, Climate Change, and National Security (Part 1) &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2009 13:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2054</guid>
		<description>[...] and negative climate feedback mechanisms. As Chip Knappenberger and I have discussed in previous posts, a new observational study by MIT scientists Richard Lindzen and Yong-Sang Choi finds that [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and negative climate feedback mechanisms. As Chip Knappenberger and I have discussed in previous posts, a new observational study by MIT scientists Richard Lindzen and Yong-Sang Choi finds that [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Climate Alarmism on the Hot Seat: Eric Berger, Houston Chronicle Science Writer, Wants to Know What&#8217;s Up &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2053</link>
		<dc:creator>Climate Alarmism on the Hot Seat: Eric Berger, Houston Chronicle Science Writer, Wants to Know What&#8217;s Up &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 13:02:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2053</guid>
		<description>[...] Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was radically overstated. Marlo Lewis&#8217;s summary, Is the Climate Science Debate Over? No, It’s Just Getting Very, Very Interesting (with welcome new..., also lays out the latest from the quite unsettled&#8211;and nonalarmist&#8211;science. Are the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) was radically overstated. Marlo Lewis&#8217;s summary, Is the Climate Science Debate Over? No, It’s Just Getting Very, Very Interesting (with welcome new&#8230;, also lays out the latest from the quite unsettled&#8211;and nonalarmist&#8211;science. Are the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe C.</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2048</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 13:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2048</guid>
		<description>The &quot;skeptics&quot; (other than myself) seem to be giving the AGW hypothesis more credit than it deserves. With all of the evidence refuting the basic claims of the hypothesis, it should be safe to say now that man-made CO2 as a driver of &quot;climate change&quot;/&quot;global warming&quot; has been disproven beyond any reasonable doubt. Would any other scientific hypothesis on any other subject still be considered viable. This is no longer a question of science but of economic terrorism thinly veiled as science.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;skeptics&#8221; (other than myself) seem to be giving the AGW hypothesis more credit than it deserves. With all of the evidence refuting the basic claims of the hypothesis, it should be safe to say now that man-made CO2 as a driver of &#8220;climate change&#8221;/&#8221;global warming&#8221; has been disproven beyond any reasonable doubt. Would any other scientific hypothesis on any other subject still be considered viable. This is no longer a question of science but of economic terrorism thinly veiled as science.</p>
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		<title>By: What If They&#8217;re Wrong? &#171; Doc Cochran&#8217;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2050</link>
		<dc:creator>What If They&#8217;re Wrong? &#171; Doc Cochran&#8217;s Weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 01:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2050</guid>
		<description>[...] again, another report has been issued which renders the global warming hysteria dubious, if not an outright myth.  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] again, another report has been issued which renders the global warming hysteria dubious, if not an outright myth.  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Next time you meet a Global Warming Alarmist &#171; Buttle&#8217;s World</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2052</link>
		<dc:creator>Next time you meet a Global Warming Alarmist &#171; Buttle&#8217;s World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 23:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2052</guid>
		<description>[...] scientific debate, meanwhile is just getting interesting. Go ahead and skim past Watts&#8217; objections to ground temperature stations. I&#8217;m sure many [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] scientific debate, meanwhile is just getting interesting. Go ahead and skim past Watts&#8217; objections to ground temperature stations. I&#8217;m sure many [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob R Geologist</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2051</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob R Geologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Aug 2009 02:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2051</guid>
		<description>I have never wavered from my first conviction, made after my reading of the Kyoto Protocols, that something was deeply wrong in blaming CO2 for what seemed normal weather. Geologists, and particularly Paleontologists, tend to have knowledge of  ancient weather. I began reviewing the Pleistocene ice ages and then back as far as the Cambrian, 1/2 billion years ago.  But I was particularly interested in  climates after liiving organisms appeared on land during and after the Devonian. The climate warmed so much during the age of the dinosaurs (200 to 65 million years ago) and CO2 out-gased from the warmed ocean depths to concentrations as high as 20 times
the amount in todays atmosphere. Both plant and animal life thrived throught this long interval, with no evidence of extinctions. This fact alone made the current global warming hysteria  preposterous. The recent findings of the Competitive Enterprise Institute that our government, starting 20 years ago, has  been funding research totaling over $30 billion, designed to prove that CO2, produced by man&#039;s activities, is proof that this insane idea is deeply embedded.  The result of this huge expenditure is climate models that do not work when applied to present climates, a total, predictable  failure by anyone versed in science. But, the biggest scandal of all is the desire of the present administration&#039;s effort to establish the &quot;cap and trade&quot; bill as a &quot;sneak tax attack&quot;, ostensibly to protect us from a non-existent hazard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have never wavered from my first conviction, made after my reading of the Kyoto Protocols, that something was deeply wrong in blaming CO2 for what seemed normal weather. Geologists, and particularly Paleontologists, tend to have knowledge of  ancient weather. I began reviewing the Pleistocene ice ages and then back as far as the Cambrian, 1/2 billion years ago.  But I was particularly interested in  climates after liiving organisms appeared on land during and after the Devonian. The climate warmed so much during the age of the dinosaurs (200 to 65 million years ago) and CO2 out-gased from the warmed ocean depths to concentrations as high as 20 times<br />
the amount in todays atmosphere. Both plant and animal life thrived throught this long interval, with no evidence of extinctions. This fact alone made the current global warming hysteria  preposterous. The recent findings of the Competitive Enterprise Institute that our government, starting 20 years ago, has  been funding research totaling over $30 billion, designed to prove that CO2, produced by man&#8217;s activities, is proof that this insane idea is deeply embedded.  The result of this huge expenditure is climate models that do not work when applied to present climates, a total, predictable  failure by anyone versed in science. But, the biggest scandal of all is the desire of the present administration&#8217;s effort to establish the &#8220;cap and trade&#8221; bill as a &#8220;sneak tax attack&#8221;, ostensibly to protect us from a non-existent hazard.</p>
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		<title>By: Worth Re-reading Weekend (MasterResource works for lazy summer days too) &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2049</link>
		<dc:creator>Worth Re-reading Weekend (MasterResource works for lazy summer days too) &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Aug 2009 06:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2049</guid>
		<description>[...] Marlo Lewis: July 24, 2009: Is the Climate Science Debate Over? No, It’s Just Getting Very, Very Interesting (with welcome new... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Marlo Lewis: July 24, 2009: Is the Climate Science Debate Over? No, It’s Just Getting Very, Very Interesting (with welcome new&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bob R Geologist</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/07/is-the-climate-science-debate-over-no-its-just-getting-very-very-interesting/comment-page-1/#comment-2047</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob R Geologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Jul 2009 20:20:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3847#comment-2047</guid>
		<description>I fervently hope these rays of sunshine will penetrate the wall of mass human stupidity about a nonexistent problem and the good name of a a gas, vital to our food supply, will be restored. I hope the perpetrators of this will be deprived of their ill intended gains and given the treatment they deserve. I suggest rationing Algore to 4 hrs of electricity for his mansion and 5 gallons of fuel for his jet per day, plus indefinite confinement to his home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I fervently hope these rays of sunshine will penetrate the wall of mass human stupidity about a nonexistent problem and the good name of a a gas, vital to our food supply, will be restored. I hope the perpetrators of this will be deprived of their ill intended gains and given the treatment they deserve. I suggest rationing Algore to 4 hrs of electricity for his mansion and 5 gallons of fuel for his jet per day, plus indefinite confinement to his home.</p>
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