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	<title>Comments on: Market Conservation vs. Government Conservationism: Understanding the Limits to Energy Efficiency and &#039;New-Economy&#039; ESCOs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/</link>
	<description>A free-market energy blog</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 20:41:38 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: shanemiller</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-16723</link>
		<dc:creator>shanemiller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Apr 2011 09:29:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-16723</guid>
		<description>Really the time has come when people should understand their duties for energy economy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really the time has come when people should understand their duties for energy economy.</p>
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		<title>By: Coerced Energy Efficiency in Texas</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-8902</link>
		<dc:creator>Coerced Energy Efficiency in Texas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Mar 2010 16:20:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-8902</guid>
		<description>[...] will argue that more government-directed conservation (or conservationism) is a good thing. After all, it is frequently claimed that the existing efficiency program is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will argue that more government-directed conservation (or conservationism) is a good thing. After all, it is frequently claimed that the existing efficiency program is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-3697</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Dec 2009 21:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-3697</guid>
		<description>Jigar - I am not a fan of government requirements in general, and specifically not in the case you present.  I prefer market forces to drive change.

Many buildings have a master meter, and the tenant pays their power bill by way of a charge embedded in their monthly rent - called CAMs for Common Area Maintenance.  This is not a metered calculation but rather a formula for approximate cost.  The landlord pays the utility, and the landlord imposes a &#039;management fee&#039; on top of the energy cost.  So you can see there is no incentive for the landlord to promote conservation because the lower the monthly energy bill - the lower will be the management fee in terms of actual dollars.

Now, if the government mandates conservation, the landlord will find a new way to collect money, perhaps higher rents.  That isn&#039;t good for business.  And if the property owner is holding the property to sell in the near future, conservation measures will add to the sale cost (price) without particularly adding any value to the buyer.  Again this is not good for business.

Another factor is that commercial properties typically have distinct budgets for capital improvements and for operations, with each in annual competition for more money.  Why would the people in charge of capital projects spend their share of the money to help the people in operations?  Which is indeed the case with energy conservation projects.  And why would the people in operations spend their money on capital projects that will be built by another department in the company?  These businesses simply aren&#039;t structured to work this way.

Building codes in the US have already reached a point where builders cannot surpass required levels with any practical amount of capital (new construction).  In other words the standards now in place are very stringent, and to surpass them would require such a significant increase in capital that people might very well simply elect not to build at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jigar &#8211; I am not a fan of government requirements in general, and specifically not in the case you present.  I prefer market forces to drive change.</p>
<p>Many buildings have a master meter, and the tenant pays their power bill by way of a charge embedded in their monthly rent &#8211; called CAMs for Common Area Maintenance.  This is not a metered calculation but rather a formula for approximate cost.  The landlord pays the utility, and the landlord imposes a &#8216;management fee&#8217; on top of the energy cost.  So you can see there is no incentive for the landlord to promote conservation because the lower the monthly energy bill &#8211; the lower will be the management fee in terms of actual dollars.</p>
<p>Now, if the government mandates conservation, the landlord will find a new way to collect money, perhaps higher rents.  That isn&#8217;t good for business.  And if the property owner is holding the property to sell in the near future, conservation measures will add to the sale cost (price) without particularly adding any value to the buyer.  Again this is not good for business.</p>
<p>Another factor is that commercial properties typically have distinct budgets for capital improvements and for operations, with each in annual competition for more money.  Why would the people in charge of capital projects spend their share of the money to help the people in operations?  Which is indeed the case with energy conservation projects.  And why would the people in operations spend their money on capital projects that will be built by another department in the company?  These businesses simply aren&#8217;t structured to work this way.</p>
<p>Building codes in the US have already reached a point where builders cannot surpass required levels with any practical amount of capital (new construction).  In other words the standards now in place are very stringent, and to surpass them would require such a significant increase in capital that people might very well simply elect not to build at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Bradley Jr.</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-3234</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Bradley Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Nov 2009 15:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-3234</guid>
		<description>I bring your attention to the post &quot;Climate McCarthyism Part 3: The Hyper-Partisan Mind&quot; by by Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus where I have the second comment:

http://thebreakthrough.org/blog/2009/11/climate_mccarthyism_part_3_the.shtml</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I bring your attention to the post &#8220;Climate McCarthyism Part 3: The Hyper-Partisan Mind&#8221; by by Michael Shellenberger and Ted Nordhaus where I have the second comment:</p>
<p><a href="http://thebreakthrough.org/blog/2009/11/climate_mccarthyism_part_3_the.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://thebreakthrough.org/blog/2009/11/climate_mccarthyism_part_3_the.shtml</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jigar Shah</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-2732</link>
		<dc:creator>Jigar Shah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Oct 2009 23:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-2732</guid>
		<description>Kevin, great thread.  I am curious, since the 1970s people have documented energy efficiency projects in homes and businesses with rates of return that exceed 20% (3 year payback or so).  However for reasons that probably relate to human behavior, many people seem to not be making an economically rationale decision.  Alternatively, maybe the business has many other uses of the capital that exceeds 20% returns or the customer believes they will leave their building within 3 years.  Even in lighting which has the highest penetration, you still see people using T12 lamps -- mostly because smaller buildings have projects that are less than $5,000, not worth going after for a sales person.

At some point isn&#039;t it far more cost effective for the government to mandate tougher building codes and retrofit requirements instead of providing subsidies to increase the 20% rate of return projects to even higher numbers?  It seems that energy efficiency just is not sexy enough to convince people to be rationale with their investment decisions.  The reason it matters is because requiring energy efficiency could easily put off a new electricity generation plant, saving the &quot;system&quot; money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, great thread.  I am curious, since the 1970s people have documented energy efficiency projects in homes and businesses with rates of return that exceed 20% (3 year payback or so).  However for reasons that probably relate to human behavior, many people seem to not be making an economically rationale decision.  Alternatively, maybe the business has many other uses of the capital that exceeds 20% returns or the customer believes they will leave their building within 3 years.  Even in lighting which has the highest penetration, you still see people using T12 lamps &#8212; mostly because smaller buildings have projects that are less than $5,000, not worth going after for a sales person.</p>
<p>At some point isn&#8217;t it far more cost effective for the government to mandate tougher building codes and retrofit requirements instead of providing subsidies to increase the 20% rate of return projects to even higher numbers?  It seems that energy efficiency just is not sexy enough to convince people to be rationale with their investment decisions.  The reason it matters is because requiring energy efficiency could easily put off a new electricity generation plant, saving the &#8220;system&#8221; money.</p>
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		<title>By: A War on CO2? Civil Libertarians, Beware! &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-1901</link>
		<dc:creator>A War on CO2? Civil Libertarians, Beware! &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Sep 2009 06:01:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-1901</guid>
		<description>[...] We should also remember Jimmy Carter&#8217;s thermostat regulations that set maximum winter temperatures and minimum summer temperatures in buildings. That got a little personal for the American way of life too. Price and allocation deregulation proved to be the cure for that energy crisis&#8211;just as price and allocation regulation created the supply/demand imbalance that inspired government conservationism. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] We should also remember Jimmy Carter&#8217;s thermostat regulations that set maximum winter temperatures and minimum summer temperatures in buildings. That got a little personal for the American way of life too. Price and allocation deregulation proved to be the cure for that energy crisis&#8211;just as price and allocation regulation created the supply/demand imbalance that inspired government conservationism. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: More Deceit from Climate Progress, Center for American Progress (Is Joe Romm shooting himself in the foot?) &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-1900</link>
		<dc:creator>More Deceit from Climate Progress, Center for American Progress (Is Joe Romm shooting himself in the foot?) &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Aug 2009 06:02:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-1900</guid>
		<description>[...] cheerleader for the company&#8217;s climate alarmism, wind and solar investments, and (contrived) as it turned out) energy outsourcing deals. I risked my job by fighting against such shenanigans [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cheerleader for the company&#8217;s climate alarmism, wind and solar investments, and (contrived) as it turned out) energy outsourcing deals. I risked my job by fighting against such shenanigans [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Fraser</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-1897</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Fraser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 15:27:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-1897</guid>
		<description>Robert I agree that what you state is the appearant goal, however the real goal is to conceal the economics.  The whole bundling thing was to create a blanket of concealment on the cash flow so either tenants or execs would not know the facts.  As long as the outgoing cashflow was unchanged things must be OK - right?  The fact that the construction project was earning the contractor a margin of fifty percent would not be brought into question because it would never be known.  And those on the buying end, even though they had a feeling they might be overpaying, went along because it was the only way to accomplish capital projects that otherwsie wouldn&#039;t get approved.

Particularly in triple net properties where the tenants pay the electric bill through their rent, a landlord could acheive millions of dollars of capital improvements paid for by the tenants - without the tenants knowing this because it was concealed in the energy bill.  Even today the things that get concealed in a tenants electric bill might surprise many of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert I agree that what you state is the appearant goal, however the real goal is to conceal the economics.  The whole bundling thing was to create a blanket of concealment on the cash flow so either tenants or execs would not know the facts.  As long as the outgoing cashflow was unchanged things must be OK &#8211; right?  The fact that the construction project was earning the contractor a margin of fifty percent would not be brought into question because it would never be known.  And those on the buying end, even though they had a feeling they might be overpaying, went along because it was the only way to accomplish capital projects that otherwsie wouldn&#8217;t get approved.</p>
<p>Particularly in triple net properties where the tenants pay the electric bill through their rent, a landlord could acheive millions of dollars of capital improvements paid for by the tenants &#8211; without the tenants knowing this because it was concealed in the energy bill.  Even today the things that get concealed in a tenants electric bill might surprise many of them.</p>
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		<title>By: Enron and Waxman-Markey: Response to Joe Romm &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-1895</link>
		<dc:creator>Enron and Waxman-Markey: Response to Joe Romm &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 12:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-1895</guid>
		<description>[...] But more than that, Enron is the perfect foil for the Romm-beloved HR 2454, the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill, or what I call the  Enron Revitalization Act of 2009. Last year I did a reason.tv video about Enron, Obama&#8217;s Enron Problem, and I have posted repeatedly about how Enron&#8217;s failure and fraud were closely related to its &#8220;sustainable energy&#8221; strategy with solar, wind, and energy efficiency. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] But more than that, Enron is the perfect foil for the Romm-beloved HR 2454, the Waxman-Markey cap-and-trade bill, or what I call the  Enron Revitalization Act of 2009. Last year I did a reason.tv video about Enron, Obama&#8217;s Enron Problem, and I have posted repeatedly about how Enron&#8217;s failure and fraud were closely related to its &#8220;sustainable energy&#8221; strategy with solar, wind, and energy efficiency. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Michaels</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/06/market-conservation-vs-government-conservationism-understanding-the-limits-to-energy-efficiency-and-new-economy-escos/comment-page-1/#comment-1892</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Michaels</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Jul 2009 01:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=3423#comment-1892</guid>
		<description>The ESCO model swims against one of the most important economic currents of the late 20th - early 21st centuries.  The Enron/ PG&amp;E ESCO was an attempt to bundle several goods and services into a single package with the hope that they could [1] assemble exactly what the customer wanted more cheaply than the customer could, unlikely if users are market-savvy and can easily inform themselves about the values of the individual pieces, and [2] because they could do it more cheaply than the customer they could mark up the package accordingly despite having little or no market power in its components.
I&#039;ll post more on this later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The ESCO model swims against one of the most important economic currents of the late 20th &#8211; early 21st centuries.  The Enron/ PG&amp;E ESCO was an attempt to bundle several goods and services into a single package with the hope that they could [1] assemble exactly what the customer wanted more cheaply than the customer could, unlikely if users are market-savvy and can easily inform themselves about the values of the individual pieces, and [2] because they could do it more cheaply than the customer they could mark up the package accordingly despite having little or no market power in its components.<br />
I&#8217;ll post more on this later.</p>
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