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	<title>Comments on: Climate and Agriculture: We’re Not Dumb</title>
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	<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/</link>
	<description>A free-market energy blog</description>
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		<title>By: ‘Climate and Agriculture: We’re Not Dumb’ Follow-Up &#8212; MasterResource</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-107</link>
		<dc:creator>‘Climate and Agriculture: We’re Not Dumb’ Follow-Up &#8212; MasterResource</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Apr 2009 06:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-107</guid>
		<description>[...] one of my first posts for MasterResource, I discussed a (then) just-published paper in Science magazine by David Battisti and Rosamond Naylor that argued [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] one of my first posts for MasterResource, I discussed a (then) just-published paper in Science magazine by David Battisti and Rosamond Naylor that argued [...]</p>
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		<title>By: cknappenberger</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-106</link>
		<dc:creator>cknappenberger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:36:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-106</guid>
		<description>TokyoTom,

Thanks for your comments.

Two of the historical examples used by Battisti and Naylor were in the extratropics—the heatwave in France in 2003 and the heat in the Ukraine in 1972.  The France example was totally inappropriate for the matter being discussed. And completely ignored known and on-going adaptive responses. True, unusual weather events can and do lead to dramatic consequences, but when they become commonplace, people adapt to them—sensitivity to extreme heat is a prime example of this, as you know.

Battisti and Naylor focus on the tropics and subtropics because that is where their temperature signal first rises above the noise.  With time, as the signal grows into the extratropics, Battisti and Naylor expand their concerns to there as well—“Lastly, with growing season temperatures in excess of the hottest years on record for many countries, the stress on crops and livestock will become global in character.”

The Battisti piece is simply gratuitous alarm-ringing. What good does it do for farmers to take actions for the climate 100 years from now?  They need to use the most appropriate technologies (including crop varieties) for &lt;em&gt;today’s&lt;/em&gt; climate. If and when changing conditions require different technologies (including crop varieties) these will undoubtedly be developed (as they have been throughout the last century). Expenditures for a potential future climate are only useful if they provide benefits today. There is no reason for a farmer to plant a crop developed for prevailing climate conditions that are different than the current ones, unless that crop is better producing in the current climate.

Yes, adaptations to climate change are required. And yes, I believe, they will come about as the need for them arises. If Battisti and Naylor’s piece was a trumpet-call for young people to start considering crop science as a course of study, then perhaps they are on to something, if it was a scare-story describing the evils of global warming, then, in my opinion (as you could tell), they were terribly off-base.

-Chip</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TokyoTom,</p>
<p>Thanks for your comments.</p>
<p>Two of the historical examples used by Battisti and Naylor were in the extratropics—the heatwave in France in 2003 and the heat in the Ukraine in 1972.  The France example was totally inappropriate for the matter being discussed. And completely ignored known and on-going adaptive responses. True, unusual weather events can and do lead to dramatic consequences, but when they become commonplace, people adapt to them—sensitivity to extreme heat is a prime example of this, as you know.</p>
<p>Battisti and Naylor focus on the tropics and subtropics because that is where their temperature signal first rises above the noise.  With time, as the signal grows into the extratropics, Battisti and Naylor expand their concerns to there as well—“Lastly, with growing season temperatures in excess of the hottest years on record for many countries, the stress on crops and livestock will become global in character.”</p>
<p>The Battisti piece is simply gratuitous alarm-ringing. What good does it do for farmers to take actions for the climate 100 years from now?  They need to use the most appropriate technologies (including crop varieties) for <em>today’s</em> climate. If and when changing conditions require different technologies (including crop varieties) these will undoubtedly be developed (as they have been throughout the last century). Expenditures for a potential future climate are only useful if they provide benefits today. There is no reason for a farmer to plant a crop developed for prevailing climate conditions that are different than the current ones, unless that crop is better producing in the current climate.</p>
<p>Yes, adaptations to climate change are required. And yes, I believe, they will come about as the need for them arises. If Battisti and Naylor’s piece was a trumpet-call for young people to start considering crop science as a course of study, then perhaps they are on to something, if it was a scare-story describing the evils of global warming, then, in my opinion (as you could tell), they were terribly off-base.</p>
<p>-Chip</p>
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		<title>By: TokyoTom</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-105</link>
		<dc:creator>TokyoTom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 05:03:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-105</guid>
		<description>Chip, it appears that you have deliberately misstated what the Science article is all about, which is precisely about the perceived need to ADAPT to the relatively higher stresses that climate exchange is expected to put on agriculture in the TROPICS.

In your even less balanced piece at the &quot;World Climate Report&quot; blog, you cast the Science article as designed to call for cap and trade legislation in the US (climate litigation), but this is clearly bogus, as the article instead clearly notes that mitigation will be too little, too late, and expressly calls for attention to and investment in ADAPTATION in the TROPICS.

NO ONE - and certainly not the Science article - is talking about the people in middle and higher latitudes starving from climate change; rather, agriculture here has generally been expected to see net gains - despite significant disruption and related adaptation resulting from changing temperature and rainfall patterns.

In temperate zones such adaptation is already underway (and can largely be left to the market), but adaptations developed here simply are not applicable in different climes, including the tropics and subtropics, which in addition are much poorer (and more poorly governed).

Whether (and how) the West should help poorer countries to adapt to climate change or simply leave poorer peoples in poorly governed nations to their own devices is the real question posed by the Science article; while scientists are unable to answer what are essentially political and moral questions, they do not do us a disservice by raising them.

You should look in the mirror when you levy charges of meretricious science nonsense, since you are essentially playing shell games with us, by  reassuring us that the temperate climes will adapt but failing to address the different, greater and less tractable problems that those in the tropics and subtropics face.

It is telling that you refuse to link to the Science article or to press releases or news articles discussing it; some of those are here:

http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/323/5911/240
http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~david/battisti_naylor_2009.pdf
http://uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=46272
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7817684.stm

Even those who love what you serve up would do well to recognize that you do not contest the prognostication of further warming and need for adaptation.  Further, they should also note that Indur Goklany, the conservative analyst whom Chip refers to at his even less balanced piece at the &quot;World Climate Report&quot; blog, explicitly calls for the Western nations to invest billions in helping the developing nations to adapt to climate change.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chip, it appears that you have deliberately misstated what the Science article is all about, which is precisely about the perceived need to ADAPT to the relatively higher stresses that climate exchange is expected to put on agriculture in the TROPICS.</p>
<p>In your even less balanced piece at the &#8220;World Climate Report&#8221; blog, you cast the Science article as designed to call for cap and trade legislation in the US (climate litigation), but this is clearly bogus, as the article instead clearly notes that mitigation will be too little, too late, and expressly calls for attention to and investment in ADAPTATION in the TROPICS.</p>
<p>NO ONE &#8211; and certainly not the Science article &#8211; is talking about the people in middle and higher latitudes starving from climate change; rather, agriculture here has generally been expected to see net gains &#8211; despite significant disruption and related adaptation resulting from changing temperature and rainfall patterns.</p>
<p>In temperate zones such adaptation is already underway (and can largely be left to the market), but adaptations developed here simply are not applicable in different climes, including the tropics and subtropics, which in addition are much poorer (and more poorly governed).</p>
<p>Whether (and how) the West should help poorer countries to adapt to climate change or simply leave poorer peoples in poorly governed nations to their own devices is the real question posed by the Science article; while scientists are unable to answer what are essentially political and moral questions, they do not do us a disservice by raising them.</p>
<p>You should look in the mirror when you levy charges of meretricious science nonsense, since you are essentially playing shell games with us, by  reassuring us that the temperate climes will adapt but failing to address the different, greater and less tractable problems that those in the tropics and subtropics face.</p>
<p>It is telling that you refuse to link to the Science article or to press releases or news articles discussing it; some of those are here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/323/5911/240" rel="nofollow">http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/323/5911/240</a><br />
<a href="http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~david/battisti_naylor_2009.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.atmos.washington.edu/~david/battisti_naylor_2009.pdf</a><br />
<a href="http://uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=46272" rel="nofollow">http://uwnews.org/article.asp?articleID=46272</a><br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7817684.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7817684.stm</a></p>
<p>Even those who love what you serve up would do well to recognize that you do not contest the prognostication of further warming and need for adaptation.  Further, they should also note that Indur Goklany, the conservative analyst whom Chip refers to at his even less balanced piece at the &#8220;World Climate Report&#8221; blog, explicitly calls for the Western nations to invest billions in helping the developing nations to adapt to climate change.</p>
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		<title>By: ET</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-104</link>
		<dc:creator>ET</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jan 2009 16:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-104</guid>
		<description>During the medieval warming, more crops could be grown in Northern climates. Greenland was green.  Doesn&#039;t this all simply cancel out any effects of warming. Land that was only somewhat good at growing things because of cold weather should become better at it. More co2 should also help.

Is global warming simply modern day witch burning behavior?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>During the medieval warming, more crops could be grown in Northern climates. Greenland was green.  Doesn&#8217;t this all simply cancel out any effects of warming. Land that was only somewhat good at growing things because of cold weather should become better at it. More co2 should also help.</p>
<p>Is global warming simply modern day witch burning behavior?</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Heater</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-103</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Heater</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-103</guid>
		<description>Would suggest that since you are looking at farm productivity in the U.S. your comparison should be to U.S. temperatures.  The National Climatic Data Center allows you to do that and while I agree with the thrust of the article temperature changes in the U.S. haven&#039;t been that dramatic over the last 100 years.  In fact in 2008 mean annual temperature was only .3 degrees greater than the 100 year mean.  For those interested, here the link;
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/na.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would suggest that since you are looking at farm productivity in the U.S. your comparison should be to U.S. temperatures.  The National Climatic Data Center allows you to do that and while I agree with the thrust of the article temperature changes in the U.S. haven&#8217;t been that dramatic over the last 100 years.  In fact in 2008 mean annual temperature was only .3 degrees greater than the 100 year mean.  For those interested, here the link;<br />
<a href="http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/na.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/na.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-102</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 20:11:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-102</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve linked to your post from &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.jeremiahfilms.com/released/discerningScience/GlobalWarming/debate/901121205&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Discerning Science - Global Warming - Debate&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve linked to your post from <a href="http://www.jeremiahfilms.com/released/discerningScience/GlobalWarming/debate/901121205" rel="nofollow">Discerning Science &#8211; Global Warming &#8211; Debate</a></p>
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		<title>By: Russell</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-101</link>
		<dc:creator>Russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 19:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-101</guid>
		<description>They also seem to be operating under some kind of dumb reader scenario...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They also seem to be operating under some kind of dumb reader scenario&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: mlynch</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-100</link>
		<dc:creator>mlynch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 12:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-100</guid>
		<description>What I find odd is that historical references to the Medieval Warm Period describe it as a golden age for agriculture in Europe.  Yet there seems to be an ovewhelming assumption that warmer means bad.  Am I missing something in the science or is this just another case of people reverse engineering the science from their assumptions.
Mike Lynch</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I find odd is that historical references to the Medieval Warm Period describe it as a golden age for agriculture in Europe.  Yet there seems to be an ovewhelming assumption that warmer means bad.  Am I missing something in the science or is this just another case of people reverse engineering the science from their assumptions.<br />
Mike Lynch</p>
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		<title>By: Bob Murphy</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-99</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob Murphy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:59:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-99</guid>
		<description>Great post, Chip.  You&#039;re probably already aware of it, but in Lomberg&#039;s &lt;i&gt;Cool It&lt;/i&gt; I&#039;m pretty sure he shows that for the heatwave in question, more people were spared winter deaths, than additional people died in the summer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, Chip.  You&#8217;re probably already aware of it, but in Lomberg&#8217;s <i>Cool It</i> I&#8217;m pretty sure he shows that for the heatwave in question, more people were spared winter deaths, than additional people died in the summer.</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Reid</title>
		<link>http://www.masterresource.org/2009/01/climate-and-agriculture-were-not-dumb/comment-page-1/#comment-98</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Reid</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://masterresource.org/?p=218#comment-98</guid>
		<description>Let me see if I have this right.  Corn yields are up 400%. Temperatures are up by &lt;1.5%. It appears that  temperature began rising about 30 years before corn yields began rising. Are we to believe that corn yields would have been even higher if temperature had not increased? Or, should we conclude that a 3% increase in temperature would have caused an 800% increase in corn yields. Or is it more likely that the increased atmospheric CO2 is, at least in part, responsible for the increased corn yields.

Enquiring minds want to know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me see if I have this right.  Corn yields are up 400%. Temperatures are up by &lt;1.5%. It appears that  temperature began rising about 30 years before corn yields began rising. Are we to believe that corn yields would have been even higher if temperature had not increased? Or, should we conclude that a 3% increase in temperature would have caused an 800% increase in corn yields. Or is it more likely that the increased atmospheric CO2 is, at least in part, responsible for the increased corn yields.</p>
<p>Enquiring minds want to know.</p>
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